The majority of Americans think God intervenes in day-to-day life.Combining the results of two recent surveys on religious belief, sociology professor Scott Shieman calculated that 82 percent of Americans ask God for help and guidance in making decisions; 71 percent believe that when good or bad things happen to them it is all part of God's plan.
Another 61 percent say God has predetermined the course of their life, and 32 percent take that a step further by agreeing with the statement "There is no sense in planning a lot because ultimately my fate is in God's hands."
According to the findings, better educated and wealthier Americans are less likely to believe God plays an active role in their life.
If that many people are whining to God about their problems, we can honestly say we feel for the big fella.
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Thursday 18 March
By GoingLikeSixty
God Love Murray State.
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Thursday 18 March
By GoingLikeSixty
*loves*
Friday 19 March
By Chris
I can't wait until mankind gets over this delusional idea that there's some invisible man up in the sky controlling everything. How many terrible things have to happen in the world before people finally pull their heads out of their asses and realize that maybe, just maybe God is not real? Or if the son of a bitch does exhist, he clearly doesn't give half a shit. One of the reasons the world is such a shithole - aside from the atrocities caused by religion throughout the ages - is that people don't want to do anything or use any critical-thinking skills. So they rely on their imaginary sky-friend to fix problems for them. It's up to us to make the world better because this world is all we know. If we focused on ways to make this place better instead of wasting our lives trying to buy our way into some candyland in the sky, we could really get shit done. When are we going to grow up?
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Friday 19 March
By Thor
And I'm sure you've done a lot to make this world a better place, like leaving comments on a web page.
Friday 19 March
By rb
great comment chris. exactly my thoughts.
Friday 19 March
By tom
THANK YOU
Tuesday 23 March
By Linda
My sentiments exactly, Chris! Why do people with access to 21st century science and technology have STONE AGE minds? Pretty scary if you ask me. Religion stifles intelligence. Have you religious people actually read your holy books of choice? The god of the bible, torah, and koran is not a very friendly fellow. On a good day, he acts like a jealous, vengeful ex-boyfriend. On a bad day, he snuffs out the entire world (innocent children too!) with a flood. Now there's a guy I want to worship ...
Wednesday 24 March
By SteveInSunset
In a universe of infinite proportion and time, there are an infinite number of possibilities. A being of relatively infinite ability is a certainty. A being that can and does encompass our experience, intellect, and ability as a species is an absolute certainty. That such beings could be unaware of our existence seems unlikely. I would further suggest that any number of such beings is a certainty and as such would be extremely organized and certainly a bit more "evolved" and "intelligent" than either Chris or I. I don't say god, I say gods, but I propose that we would be subject to the authority of only one such being.
Friday 19 March
By Nate
Q: How do you reason with a person that believes in a mythical creator that intervenes with their day-to-day life?
A: Unknown - I’m personally hoping science will help us locate and phase out this delusional gene from our DNA.
Thanks for your comment Chris – It’s nice to know there’s a small minority of sane people.
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Friday 19 March
By Cassandra
Chris
Bear in mind that most of humanities greatest intellectuals have been people of faith, that most of the advances in civil equality, literature, art, and particularly the foundations of science, have come from people of faith, perhaps your conclusions are more than just a bit delusional.
While much harm has been done by people acting under the excuse of religion, no human institution is free of abuse, including science, philosophy, and the self-centered navel gazing of atheism. What has atheism given the world? The civil rights atrocities in East Germany by the Stasi, and China's record level of executions.
The fact is, your attitude about religion is not rational, it is not reasonable, it is not scientific. It is not rational, Chris, for you and your peers to claim that everyone else in the world is wrong about their experiences, simply because you have not experienced the same thing. It is not reasonable, or scientific, to dismiss out of hand the majority of all data - in this case, the personal testimony of most of humanity since the earliest surviving records of human culture and thought.
Atheism is simply one of many ugly prejudices. Atheism is just like racism, homophobia, misogyny - a dehumanizing and degrading conclusion about other people based solely on the fact that their life experiences are different from yours.
Atheism is just an ugly prejudice, and the degrading and malicious way you expressed it, is more evidence against it. All you are doing is mocking the lives and experiences of most of humanity, Chris, and do so by using every dishonest trick that homophobes, racists, misogynists, and fundamentalists, use.
Your position is identical to theirs in every way except target. And while homophobes hate about 10% of humanity, and anti-black racists hate about %17 of humanity, and misogynists hate about 50% of humanity, atheists abuse and hate about 90% of humanity. Atheism, as a prejudice, intrinsically includes anti-Semitism, and is anti-Buddhist, anti-Hindu, anti-Wicca, etc as well.
And Chris, your writing and reasoning skills are poor enough that you shouldn't be criticizing anyone else's intelligence.
Oh well, to paraphrase Nate, there's no reasoning with bigots.
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Friday 19 March
By Azia
While I can agree with most of this, I have to say atheism does not have to be a prejudice. Like anything else in the world, it can get out of hand. In my personal experience, atheists do tend to be a little arrogant.
Yet I would not say they are all prejudice. It's simply a form a belief, rather a lack of it. Your comment could be the equivalent of saying Christianity is a prejudice against other religions. It just doesn't work like that.
Not believing in a god doesn't mean you hate those who do. There is nothing ugly about it.
Saturday 20 March
By Chris
Cassandra,
You actually have the audacity to call Atheism a prejudice? You are aware that racism, homophobia, and misogyny were started because the bible justifies them right? Attacking people for who they are is completely different from attacking them for what they believe and you damn well know it. Some people are Atheists because there is no evidence of God's exhistence. Atheism is the absence of belief, look it up. I'm well aware that some people of faith have contributed to advancements of mankind such as art, literature, civil equality, and science. Science and Atheism are not mutually exclusive. I'm also aware that there are religious people out there that are not batshit insane like most theists are. I also know that some religious organizations do charities and philanthropy work as well. But I have to question the motivations behind those things considering that most Christians not only believe in the apocoplypse, but actually want it to happen. I can't help but think that most of them only do it because they're trying to buy their way into Heaven. If they do believe in that apocolyptic shit, then why else would they bother. It's insulting to those theists that do it because they actually care.
Now you said my attitude about religion is irrational, unreasonable, and unscientific. Okay, well lets see if that's true. Here's what religion has caused and justified: Genocide, slavery, wars, human sacrifice, the crusades, terrorist attacks, people being stripped of their basic human rights, lack of freedom, indoctrination, witch trials, lynchings, censorship, racism, misogyny, homophobia, suppression of human sexuality, denial of truth, logic, scientific fact, and fuck does that list go on. Oh yeah, but I'm the irrational bigot. That's pretty good. If you think of another one let me know. I know not all of these things happen because of religion, but most of it has. Cassie, I suggest you read the bible cover to cover and do some historical research. Then we'll see how goddamn politically correct you want to be toward ancient desert cults. Religion deserves to be criticized, questioned, and mocked. It has respect that it hasn't earned and collects millions of dollars every year and doesn't pay a cent in taxes. Religion is used to meddle in peoples' personal lives, it interferes in education and politics, and stifles scientific progress every chance it gets.
As far as God intervening in someone's life goes, just because people claim to have a so-called experience doesn't validate it. Any delusional fuckwit can say they have seen God or heard him speaking to them, wether it be in ancient times or the present day. Personal testimony doesn't mean shit. Some people lie and others hallucinate. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, which there is none of so far. If you know of any evidence, please by all means point me in the direction, I'll be happy to see it for myself. The point I was making is that when people put their trust into an imaginary being who so far can't be proven to exhist, it gives that person relief of not taking responsibility for their own lives. Cassandra, it's not people believing in God that bothers meor any other atheist. What pisses us off the most about this, are peoples' idea that they're getting special treatment while millions of others around the world are suffering. THAT to me is selfish and arrogant. What the fuck is God's plan for the suffering?! Oh, yeah there isn't one. And if there is a God and all this bullshit is part of some twisted plan of his, then he can take his plan and shove it up his genocidal ass! In the meantime I suggest you pull your head out of yours and take a good long look at what's happening in the world. No true God could just sit on his ass and let all this shit happen. Wether he exhists or not, it's our responsiblity to fix things. I thought I made that point crystal clear but I guess not.
Oh, and on a side note, if you had read Nate's comment carefully you would have noticed he was agreeing with me. If you respond, I'll address more of your points but right now I got to go.
Saturday 20 March
By Cassandra
Chris
You wrote: “You actually have the audacity to call Atheism a prejudice?”
Yes, I told the truth. How interesting though that you characterize my criticism to your attack on other human beings as somehow inappropriate and unacceptable.
You wrote: “You are aware that racism, homophobia, and misogyny were started because the bible justifies them right?”
I am aware of the truth. All three prejudices that you mentioned predate the Bible. Prejudice, of any kind, originates in some people’s desire to elevate their own esteem by devaluing other people. And in order to justify and excuse this arrogant and ego-driven behavior, people have used just about every belief system, body of knowledge, tradition or culture, to create a veneer of acceptability for their prejudice. Science has been used to justify racial and gender based prejudices, as well as homophobia. Philosophies have abused in the same way, as have political ideologies, religion, and even some of the fine arts. Bigots use whatever they believe will make their prejudice seem reasonable, just as you are doing now.
Before you launch into a repetition of fundamentalist theology that you probably don’t really understand; I’ve been actively, publicly and successfully refuting fundamentalist anti-gay theology for more than two decades. When translated accurately, read in context, and evaluated as a whole, the Bible does not justify any prejudice whatsoever. The Bible contains explicit commands that repudiate and condemn all prejudices, so anyone who uses any shard of text to construct a defense of any prejudice, is abusing the document itself.
You wrote: “Attacking people for who they are is completely different from attacking them for what they believe”
No, in either case you are attacking people. However, your excuse misses and simultaneously proves the larger point. People of faith testify that their experience of the Divine* is part of who they are, their capacity to experience the Divine is innate and immutable. But just as homophobes argue that homosexuality is “a choice, a behavior”, and dismiss and ignore the testimony of GLBTQ people about their own lives, atheism dismisses the testimony of people of faith about their capacity to experience the Divine.
* (I’m using Divine, rather than the term for any specific god from any particular faith, both out of respect for all religions, and to demonstrate that atheism is prejudice against all people of faith, including those who have been persecuted for it, like Jews, indicating that atheism is also intrinsically antisemitism.)
You wrote: “you damn well know it”
This is an example that confirms my prior point. Here you are asserting that the ideas in your head define my life, what I know and experience in this example, over and above my own testimony. Homophobes do the same thing, Chris, telling GLBTQ people that they do not really experience love, only lust, and when we argue back, they tell us ‘you damn well know it’ too.
“Some people are Atheists because there is no evidence of God's exhistence.”
Trouble is, there is evidence of the Divine, atheists simply refuse to accept that evidence. This is the point I made earlier: “you and your peers to claim that everyone else in the world is wrong about their experiences, simply because you have not experienced the same thing”. As I mentioned in a subsequent post: “When an atheist says 'there is no God', what they are really saying is 'everyone else is wrong, everyone else is incapable of knowing the truth'. Atheism is nothing more than the reason-less refusal of other people's lives, experiences, and worth.”
This is yet another way that atheism parallels other prejudices, like homophobia. GLBTQ people testify about their experiences, and homophobes simply refuse to believe that testimony. People of faith testify about their experiences, and atheists simply refuse to believe that testimony. In both cases the exact same principle is at work.
“Atheism is the absence of belief, look it up.”
I did, and no, it is not the absence of belief, it is the belief that God does not exist. There is a very large difference. Skepticism or doubt are the absence of belief, but atheism is an explicit negation of the existence of divinity of any kind.
Saturday 20 March
By Cassandra
For Chris
“I'm well aware that some people of faith have contributed to advancements of mankind such as art, literature, civil equality, and science.”
Nice example of the tactics bigots use there, trying to minimize the contributions of your target demographic. Homophobes do the same thing consistently. The fact of the matter is that across the totality of human documented experience, the overwhelming majority of all contributions to the advancement of human culture, across all fields, has come from people of faith.
“I'm also aware that there are religious people out there that are not batshit insane like most theists are.”
And this is the flip side, again mirroring the tactics of homophobes and other classes of bigot: declare that there are a few exceptions to the malicious and degrading false characterization that you apply to your target demographic. The problem is that your derogatory characterization is a classic instance of prejudice. That one phrase perfectly illustrates my point:atheism is only a prejudice, a malevolent and degrading assumption about a group of human beings based entirely on a trait they share, expressed for the sole purpose of elevating the ego of the person who articulated it.
Skipping ahead a bit
“Now you said my attitude about religion is irrational, unreasonable, and unscientific. Okay, well lets see if that's true. Here's what religion has caused and justified: Genocide, slavery, wars, human sacrifice, the crusades, terrorist attacks, people being stripped of their basic human rights, lack of freedom, indoctrination, witch trials, lynchings, censorship, racism, misogyny, homophobia, suppression of human sexuality, denial of truth, logic, scientific fact, and fuck does that list go on.”
Yes, as your own words indicate. See, religion is not the cause of any of the things you listed; it is one of many things, including science, that people have used to excuse these things.
It is unscientific for you to ignore the many examples of genocide that occur between people with the same religion or with no religion-based dispute, but occurred instead because of racial or ethnic prejudices or territorial needs. It is irrational to conclude that because some religious people have instigated wars, their religion must be cause, rather than, as has often been the case, territorial desires, perceived injustices, desires to acquire or control material goods, etc. It is unreasonable, and dishonest, to blame religion for civil injustice, for example, when the stridently anti-religious regime in East Germany established so vicious an example of totalitarian rule and abuse.
The truth is that some people abuse others, in all of the ways you listed, and many more. And they create excuses for themselves, usually from whatever else in their society is popular, influential and respected. As modern example, homophobes are slowly abandoning religious justifications for anti-gay legislation, and employing pseudo-scientific or pseudo-social excuses, in the form of ‘there’s no gay gene, causes disease’, etc.
That you employ obscenity only indicates that you are not making a serious point, but simply being offensive for the sake of being offensive.
“Oh yeah, but I'm the irrational bigot. That's pretty good.”
If the shoe fits, by all means, wear it. But don’t put words in my text that are not there.
“I know not all of these things happen because of religion, but most of it has.”
Though you are certainly entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts. Once again, your belief system has put you in the position of asserting that your vision of reality supersedes the experiences, knowledge and history of everyone else. At least you acknowledge that your prior statement was false.
“Cassie, I suggest you read the bible cover to cover and do some historical research.”
I have several criticisms of the above statement.
First, there is your arrogant assumption that I have neither read the Bible cover to cover (several times actually) nor done historical research (more than twenty years of it). This is an example of the phenomena I criticized before – pretending that your ideas define my life for me, which as I mentioned, is a symptom of prejudice.
There is also the problem of sending me off to do your work for you, as if I’ll come to your conclusion and think like you if I do as you say.
Finally, it is just a lazy dismissal, a snarky implied insult about my education offered up in place of any evidence, logic or reason.
“Then we'll see how goddamn politically correct you want to be toward ancient desert cults.”
And there’s another pejorative characterization, and, a racist one at that. Do you hate on all desert peoples or just those from the Middle East?
Saturday 20 March
By Cassandra
“Religion deserves to be criticized, questioned, and mocked.”
Religion is the accumulated spiritual experiences of most of humanity, their understanding of those experiences, their testimony about those experiences, and the ways they chose to articulate, celebrate and share those experiences. You are essentially saying that everyone who does not share your belief deserves to be mocked.
That is extraordinarily anti-social and dehumanizing.
“As far as God intervening in someone's life goes, just because people claim to have a so-called experience doesn't validate it.”
This raises the issue of trust in others and the very foundation of human societies large and small, and returns us to the core failing and inhumanity of atheism.
There is a universal expectation among humans (actually animal life on this planet) that we will be believed when we communicate our experiences. When a baby cries because it is hungry, it does so with the expectation that it will be fed. When we cry out in pain, it is with the expectation that someone will help us. We feel violated when someone lies, because our innate expectation is to trust and be trust when we communicate, while lies themselves rely on that expectation.
Atheism, as your own argument expresses, intrinsically violates the core element of human interaction, and for this reason, is deeply anti-social and horrifically abusive by its very premise.
And there’s an ironic part.
See, judging from the public statements of atheists, they pretty much expect to believe when they say something. Chris, your own post is comprised entirely of your word without any external citation. Though that is certainly an appropriate level for this venue, it still indicates that you have the expectation of being believed, even as you refuse to believe other people when they testify about their own experiences.
“Any delusional fuckwit “
Derogatory verbiage like is not going to convince anyone that your position is not an example of prejudice.
“Personal testimony doesn't mean shit.”
Then no one should believe anything you post, including the statement quoted above. Isn’t that ironic – your own assertion that personal testimony is worthless is self-negated. Think about that – since your posts are nothing more than, and nothing less than, personal testimony, by your own standard, they don’t mean anything.
And really, that is the buried message in atheism; the word, the testimony of atheists is worthless, they do not trust others because they know that they themselves are not trustworthy.
Monday 12 April
By Heather
An atheist is a person who holds that the proposition 'at least one God exists' is certainly or almost certainly false.
The fact that we have a specific word for a person who does not believe in the existence of gods is ridiculous. There is no specific word for those that do not believe in Zeuss.
Religion is a collection of lies.
To quote/paraphrase a bit of Richard Dawkins (a man much more eloquent and learned than I am):
"Religion is the root of quite a lot of evil."
So you think religion is a part of human nature?
Speak for yourself.
Artists in Renaissance times and earlier had to go where the money was; imagine if they had been able to create what they wanted, not what their patrons commissioned.
It is part of human nature to seek answers. The result was this ridiculous idea of an after life and an omnipotent force controlling all humans. An unoriginal god modeled after man.
How will you manage without religion you ask? Maybe you are able to obtain consolation from a lie. I am not. I am glad there is no god.
How undignified to believe in a religion simply because you do not want to face the unpleasant fact of your eventual annihilation. That does not change the fact that this is the only life we have.
What concrete proof is there that there is a god?
It is child-like to take comfort in religion.
Religion is not inspirational; it is small-minded.
The world of science provides many more "profound, beautiful, elegant mysteries" to ponder.
There is deep complexity in the study of life.
No religious book provides a reasonable explanation of the origins of the universe or the meaning of life. "There is no evidence for religious ideas at all."
"Religion interferes with the education of students."
"The indoctrination of children in the virtues of faith" is wrong.
Do you think a child can fully understand religious ideas? Children who are raised in a religion are not taught to make their own decisions or to think for themselves. They are taught to blindly believe in ideas.
Culturally, economically, and politically we have been retarded by religion. People are willing to kill one another in the name of their "god". When is the last time you heard of someone killing in the name of atheism?
Religion breeds division.
Friday 19 March
By Kevin
If that includes statements like "God, I hope I get laid soon..." then it's probably pretty accurate!
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Saturday 20 March
By Cassandra
Azia
"I have to say atheism does not have to be a prejudice."
Actually, it always is. Atheism has only one belief, and that belief is the negation of everyone else's experience. When an atheist says 'there is no God', what they are really saying is 'everyone else is wrong, everyone else is incapable of knowing the truth'. Atheism is nothing more than the reason-less refusal of other people's lives, experiences, and worth.
"Your comment could be the equivalent of saying Christianity is a prejudice against other religions."
No, because Christianity has many, many beliefs, and the rejection of other religions, is but one component. Further, that rejection of other religions is not a universal Christian belief but an interpretation held by many, but not all Christians, and in variance of early Christian belief. Frankly, Christ's command 'love your neighbor as yourself' requires that Christians who want their own faith to be respected MUST be respectful of all other faiths.
"Not believing in a god doesn't mean you hate those who do. There is nothing ugly about it."
Ah, but that is not what I said, and it employs the most superficial understanding of atheism.
Atheism goes deeper than just not believing in God - it is the explicit statement 'There is no God' which intrinsically means - everyone who testifies to experiencing the Divine is just wrong because the atheist says so. Atheism goes beyond "I don't believe" explicitly declaring "you are all wrong about your own lives and experiences because I said so".
While 'not believing in a god' is not hate, asserting as fact that everyone else who has ever experienced the Divine is wrong, delusional, a liar, insane, mentally ill, and so on . . .
is hate.
Atheists explicitly refuse to believe the testimony of other people (i.e., most of humanity) about their own lives (i.e., most of humanity), band that is hate. It is hate when homophobes refuse to believe homosexuals, it is hate when people of one race refuse to believe people of another, when men refuse to believe women. That refusal is a personal, deep negation of a person's very worth and self-ness.
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Saturday 20 March
By Freya
"Atheism is simply one of many ugly prejudices"
Aren't your statements about atheism just as prejudiced as you believe an atheist attitude towards Christians is? And don't all beliefs, by definition, assert that all others apart from their own, are false? By calling ourselves atheists, we are not declaring a contempt or hatred for all religions, we are just saying that we do not personally believe in any Gods. Taking this as a personal attack is unjust, especially as atheists only share one common belief, and so you know nothing about someone's beliefs and values if you only know that they are an atheist.
Saturday 20 March
By Cassandra
Freya
You asked: "Aren't your statements about atheism just as prejudiced as you believe an atheist attitude towards Christians is?"
Before I answer, let's try a parallel. Are statements that criticize homophobes as prejudiced as the statements homophobes make about GLBTQ people?
How about this parallel: Is it prejudice to criticize racism?
If all criticism is prejudice, then the answer is yes and we must all shut up about any prejudice whatsoever.
In my opinion, there are different kinds of criticism.
Homophobia, racism, misogyny; these are criticisms of the very self-ness, the identity, the experiences, the humanity of certain people defined by who they are.
Atheism is as well, it negates the core foundation of human interaction, the expectation of being believed, and it only applies that negation to certain people. Atheism, no matter how much anyone issues empty denials, is nothing more than a denial of the validity of other people by rejecting their experiences and testimony.
Criticism of the above mentioned prejudices (homophobia, racism, misogyny) is directed at the idea, the process of denigrating others based on their shared trait. It is criticism, absolutely, but it is not prejudice.
"By calling ourselves atheists, we are not declaring a contempt or hatred for all religions, we are just saying that we do not personally believe in any Gods."
I'm sorry, but the second clause contradicts the first. Furthermore, atheism does not simply say 'I do not believe in God' - what shrinks call an I statement, atheism declares 'there is not God' and therefore, implicitly and intrinsically, "everyone else is wrong".
Billions of human beings across all of recorded history have experienced something that in English is referred to as God, or Divine, and similar words. Atheism by its sole belief "there is no God" declares that all of those people are simply, without evidence, wrong about their own lives and experiences.
That is truly reprehensible.
"Taking this as a personal attack is unjust,"
It is a personal attack on people of faith, one that denies them their credibility and accuracy, accusing them of being either liars or delusional - as so many atheists on the web are said by calling people of faith liars or delusional.
"especially as atheists only share one common belief,"
Which is why I have addressed that belief and its impact/judgement of other people.
"and so you know nothing about someone's beliefs and values if you only know that they are an atheist"
How ironic. Chris has reviled the bulk of humanity solely on the grounds that they experienced something he, presumably, has not.